Rediscovering Food Freedom and Intuitive Eating with Amy Carlson, MS, RD
“What does that mean for us to manage and control our hunger? What does that say about us?"
If you have spent years managing your hunger, overriding it, and treating it as a problem to solve, you already know the tiredness that comes with it. Food stopped being about eating a long time ago. It became a test you kept failing, a set of rules that grew heavier every year, one more thing to get right before you were allowed to feel okay in your own skin. For anyone who has wrestled with dieting, disordered eating, or the low hum of food anxiety that never fully quiets, the noise gets loud enough that you forget your body ever knew how to do this on its own.
Today on the Old School Food Freedom Podcast, Chrissy sits down with Amy Carlson, registered dietitian and co-founder of the Peace With Food app, to talk about what intuitive eating is and how you find your way back to the rhythms God built into your body from the start.
Amy is a registered dietitian who came through her own recovery from anorexia and bulimia during years when neither was well understood, and she has made speaking truth to women in recovery her life's work.
Here’s what we cover:
What intuitive eating means, using the picture of a small child who eats when hungry, stops when full, and walks away without a second thought
How we learned to stop trusting our internal hunger cues and hand the decision over to external rules about when and whether we are allowed to eat
The old diet magazines Amy shows her clients, and the college student who realized the same message is now coming from her Pinterest, TikTok, and Instagram feeds
Why Jesus ate relationally, and what happens to families and friendships when everyone at the table is on a different plan
The garden connection: how the enemy questioned God's character to Eve, and how we still wonder whether God is holding out on us
Where to start if you feel like it is your fault, you have failed before, and you cannot picture what freedom would even look like
If you have been pushing your way through food rules for so long that you cannot remember what it felt like to eat without a running commentary in your head, this conversation is for you. What Amy points you toward is the way your body was designed to work before anyone told you it could not be trusted.
"We're trying to get from the world what only God can offer. That is a dead-end street, and we keep circling." - Amy Carlson
Intuitive eating is the slow work of listening to your body again, honoring hunger when it shows up and fullness when it arrives, and learning to do it around other people instead of alone at a table where everyone is eating something different. The rhythms were already there from the beginning: hunger that tells you it's time and fullness that tells you that you are satisfied, in a body God made and called good. The scale was never the point. Freedom shows up the first time you say "I'm full" and mean it, and feel nothing but okay.
Send this to a friend who has been dieting her whole life and is ready to believe she does not have to.
We’d love to hear your thoughts, so please drop us an email at admin@findingbalance.com, send us a voice message via SpeakPipe, or you can also subscribe for more practical episodes coming your way.
More About Amy Carlson
Amy Carlson, RD (Registered Dietitian), has maintained a thriving private practice in the Houston, Texas, area, serving the eating disorder population for nearly two decades. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Nutrition from the University of Minnesota, where she grew up, and a Master of Science in Nutrition from TWU in the Texas Medical Center. Passionate about truth and equipping women to find freedom, Amy is a highly sought-after speaker, traveling across Texas and the country to speak to women's groups at retreats and women’s conferences. Her longing to have a bigger reach with the truth and knowledge of food and the body became a reality with the co-founding of the Peace With Food App: the opportunity to pour years of her experience into a personalized application for anyone to use. Amy and her husband have been happily married for over 20 years, and together they lead a busy, active life with their four beautiful children.
Connect with Amy Carlson:
Website
Christian Treatment Finder Profile
FINDINGbalance:
Facebook
Instagram
SpeakPipe – send us a voice message
CHRIST-CENTERED RESOURCES TO HELP YOU FIND FREEDOM
The Daily Vitamin eDevo: A free devotional with bite-sized truth emailed 5 days a week
Community Groups: Find connection with prayer groups and our Hello, Freedom! community.
Christian Treatment Finder: Connecting you with Christian providers experienced in treating eating issues.
Lasting Freedom Online Course: A Christ-centered, non-diet course to work through false beliefs about food and weight so you can live free from disordered eating and body image issues.
CREDITS:
Intro music by “MokkaMusic” – Old Jeans (Funk)
Production & Editing by Marketing With Wisdom
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The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prescribe a particular course of action. If you have, or suspect you may have, an eating disorder, please consult your healthcare provider. If you desire to receive faith-based care, visit ChristianTreatmentFinder.com to browse professionals with a Kingdom campaign against eating disorders.
More about the Old School Food Freedom Podcast
In today’s diet-culture society, food issues and body hatred have become the norm. But you were created to be FREE. Welcome to Old School Food Freedom, where we go back to the basics, God’s basics, for how we view food, our bodies, and our worth.
Hosted by FINDINGbalance Executive Director Chrissy Kirkman, this podcast features Biblically-sound experts, thought-leaders, artists, and everyday people who will inspire you to interrupt negative cultural soundtracks and rediscover God’s original design for your relationship with food and your body.
This show will deliver practical, faith-filled insights on how to break free from diet culture and body shame through the lens of scripture. If you’re looking for guidance on how to heal your relationship with food while deepening your faith, you're in the right place.
We’ll answer questions like
What does the Bible say about food freedom?
How can I overcome an eating disorder or disordered eating with Jesus?
What is the biblical perspective on diet culture?
How can I find peace with food as a Christian?
What does it mean to treat your body as a temple in relation to eating?
How can I break free from diet culture with Jesus?
How can I align my eating habits with biblical teachings?
What are the first steps to finding food freedom in Christ?
This podcast is for anyone ready to walk away from diet culture and into the freedom that Christ offers. Whether you’re recovering from an eating disorder, disordered eating, wrestling with body image, or simply craving a more peaceful relationship with food, this space was made for you.
If you want to experience true food freedom with Jesus, this podcast will give you the encouragement, truth, and tools to do just that.
The unedited transcript for this episode of Old School Food Freedom
Chrissy Kirkman [00:00:42 - 00:00:54]: We're so glad you're here with us today. Let's get into today's episode. Amy Carlson, welcome to the show today. Thank you.
Amy Carlson [00:00:55 - 00:00:57]: Thanks for having me, Chrissy Kirkman.
Meet Amy Carlson
Chrissy Kirkman [00:00:58 - 00:01:46]: You're so welcome. Before we jump into the Old School Food Freedom Podcast, I want to tell our listeners about you. Amy Carlson is a registered licensed dietitian in the Houston area. She holds her Bachelor of Science in Nutrition from the University of Minnesota, where she grew up, and received her Master of Science in Nutrition from Texas Women's University. Amy has been practicing in her field for over 20 years and has had the privilege of working with girls and women with eating disorders for nearly as long. After recovering from anorexia and bulimia during a time when neither were well understood, it has become her passion to speak truth into girls and women as they seek to recover. Amy is also one of the co-founders of the Peace With Food app alongside her dear friend and colleague, Dr. Megan Osborne.Chrissy Kirkman [00:01:47 - 00:02:07]: Finding Balance is blessed to have had Amy as a featured speaker at our Hungry for Hope events and an expert in our Lasting Freedom course. Amy's a wife and mom of 4, and she enjoys this most of all. Okay, Amy, we like to kick off each episode with a question. And what old-school item do you miss from back in the day?
Old-School Nostalgia: Letter Writing
Amy Carlson [00:02:07 - 00:02:31]: Oh gosh, I love old-school items. I actually love old school, but let me think about that, Chrissy. You know what? I'm going to be super generic and tell you that I super miss letter writing. There's something very impactful about writing letters. I still do it. I still buy greeting cards. I love postcards. I love putting a stamp on something.Amy Carlson [00:02:31 - 00:03:00]: I love writing a letter and sending it. And I also love receiving, which, if anyone I know is listening, I actually don't get that many letters. So that would be nice. Including my children that live far away. But I super miss it because there's something really powerful. I just got one from my friend, one of my closest friends in Colorado, and she wrote like we were missionaries on 2 remote islands and she was giving me an update and it made me so happy. I was like, yes, letter writing, right? I miss it. Old school.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:00 - 00:03:10]: Oh, that's good. That's nostalgic. I also think that makes me think of like at Christmas time, There are people in my life that every single year wrote a Christmas letter.
Amy Carlson [00:03:10 - 00:03:12]: I do it every year.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:12 - 00:03:12]: Do you?
Amy Carlson [00:03:13 - 00:03:13]: Yes.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:13 - 00:03:17]: That like gives the update of the whole year of the Carlson family.
Amy Carlson [00:03:18 - 00:03:35]: Okay. Okay. I confess, I don't actually give the update because I— but I usually let that be like my one moment to write like something profound. It's my— Chrissy, you're on my Christmas card list. You're on my Christmas card list now. Oh my gosh. I will frame it. Okay.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:36 - 00:03:40]: Done. That is done. That's exciting. I love that.
Amy Carlson [00:03:40 - 00:03:41]: Yeah.
Amy's Impact and Intuitive Eating
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:41 - 00:04:45]: Well, we know, I know that you have made a huge impact in my healing journey. I am not wherever I think I should be, but I'm right where I need to be, right in God's presence. And He has helped me in so many ways just find freedom from the bondage of these food struggles. With intuitive eating, you and Dr. Megan Osborne, both with the Peace with Food app, trying to get back in those rhythms, I still find myself needing to go back and revisit and get back into rhythms because I'll get into work mode and work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. I need to go to the bathroom, but I don't want to eat because that just takes too much time. I mean, it's ridiculous. But intuitive eating, for anyone who doesn't know, can you just explain what does that mean if someone's never heard the concept of intuitive eating? Like I like to say, Well, it's really the way God designed our bodies to eat and think about food before this thing called diet culture came in and messed everything up.Chrissy Kirkman [00:04:45 - 00:04:48]: But that's my layman's terms. How would you share that?
Amy Carlson [00:04:48 - 00:04:53]: That's actually pretty much it, Chrissy. And it's a wrap, folks. Chrissy's got it.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:04:54 - 00:04:54]: And done.
Amy Carlson [00:04:54 - 00:05:47]: And done. You know what? Actually, intuitive eating is a word that we use, but I taught intuitive eating long before I even used that language. Intuitive eating, you're right. It's just the way that our bodies naturally— if you think about a little kid and you watch a small child eat and you watch sort of their natural rhythms, which is they really experience hunger and they respond to it and they eat and they might say, I'm so hungry. And then they eat and they leave, you know, a quarter of the sandwich and half the chips on their plate and they're done and they're going and playing because they're full and they've recognized their fullness cues. and they walk away from food, that's the clearest example of intuitive eating, Gibi, which is just that we listen to the natural rhythms of our body. And the reality is, there's a lot of things that impact that. There's a lot of things that impact it as we age.
Amy Carlson [00:05:47 - 00:06:30]: There's a lot of things that impact it with our schedules, exactly what you just described. It's one of the reasons that Megan and I built the app, which was an exciting kind of journey in and of itself. But it's because not just people who are in recovery from an eating disorder, but people who are recovering their life coming out of the diet culture, Or just are confused about how to eat, um, and they need help trying to figure out what those rhythms are again. That's one of the reasons we do it. So intuitive eating is really just finding those natural rhythms again. And intuition is, um, right, that's in the name itself, which is kind of finding that natural intuition, which honestly a lot of people say to me, I don't trust my intuition with eating. And so we have to kind of work our way— we got to go backwards and work our way forwards to that.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:06:30 - 00:06:35]: So And it's a long process. Do you see that it's a long process?
Amy Carlson [00:06:35 - 00:07:40]: Oh, it's— I just— yeah, I tell people, put on your seatbelt, we're going for a ride. Like, don't— like, get comfy, get your bags, get a book for a while, cup of coffee, cup of coffee, get your playlist going because we're gonna be in it for a little while. One of the reasons it's so complicated, and I know we'll probably talk about this more, but it's just that One, we have a lot of factors that have interrupted that. If you have a history of an eating disorder or disordered eating, certainly we're working on recovering, you know, from that. But we also have a culture that's immersed in the diet culture and really speaks that language very well right now. And so people who are coming out of that dieting culture, um, it can be very conflicting because those around them are there. So it is a long process and well worth it. And I just had a client who I adore, and she's in her 50s And I've had her for several years recovering from an eating disorder, but really a lifelong trauma and just a conflicted relationship with food for most of her life.
Amy Carlson [00:07:40 - 00:08:08]: And the other day, she was just in tears in our session and she just said, the freedom you promised I would have is here and I can't believe it. And just to see that and just kind of watch that happen and to think, I just said, Nobody knows what happens in these sessions. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited. Right? Like, it's just amazing and it's amazing to see and amazing to watch. So yeah, it's a, it can be a process for sure. And I want that to be a word of encouragement rather than discouraging. I hope it would be a word of encouragement.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:08:09 - 00:08:20]: And it's, it is so worth it. I love, I love that you shared that because instantly I was like, I remember, I remember the day that I felt that way.
Amy Carlson [00:08:20 - 00:08:20]: Wow.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:08:21 - 00:08:40]: That the things that people were telling me, the things I was learning in the Lasting Freedom course, and I was reading, and it actually clicked. And I realized that ice cream that used to feel like it had so much power over me has been in the freezer now for 2 weeks, and I haven't even thought about it once.
Amy Carlson [00:08:40 - 00:08:40]: Ah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:08:41 - 00:08:54]: Yeah. And it just— it's like the pull, the magnetic pull it feels like it had over you. just goes away. And, and, you know, we talk about old school food freedom, but there are a lot of old school food rules.
Old School Food Rules vs. Food Freedom
Amy Carlson [00:08:55 - 00:08:55]: Yeah.Chrissy Kirkman [00:08:55 - 00:09:15]: Old books that we've, you know, our, our parents, our moms have read a book or done a program or something. Um, you know, friends share things with us and, um, we all mean well. I think that when, when, when we're doing this and we're talking about it in a community or with friends, It's because we all relate to the struggles.
Amy Carlson [00:09:15 - 00:09:16]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:09:16 - 00:09:44]: And we want to find freedom. And we think that freedom will come in a variety of ways, or it should look like this. Or now that I'm on more of a healed side of the journey, I see all these commercials and how they're just saying, you know, like appetite suppressant. And, and so you can go longer without eating and shut down your food cravings. And I'm— now I see it in a different light.
Amy Carlson [00:09:45 - 00:09:46]: I know, right?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:09:46 - 00:09:53]: Because why are we trying to silence the voice that's trying to help our bodies be efficient, fully efficient?
Amy Carlson [00:09:54 - 00:10:35]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, when I often— when I, um, talk or give a talk, I talk about how this way that our bodies are created and were created, we're really— um, reminds us that We are created people that rely on a creator. Just by nature is that hunger built in, that rhythm, and we have natural rhythms. And we work so hard in this culture to manage and suppress our natural rhythms. We do it by trying to keep ourselves awake and then now I've decided it's time to go to sleep, so I'm going to medicate myself to go to sleep. And, you know, I'm— oh, I don't— I need to manage my hunger.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:10:35 - 00:10:35]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:10:36 - 00:12:13]: And I always try to sit with that language with somebody and just say, what does that mean for us to manage and control our hunger? What does that say about us? What if we stop and we even just make a general commitment to not manage and control our hunger? But let's, for a little bit of time, consider what if we listen and honor our hunger? What would that look like? And listening and honoring our hunger comes also with listening and honoring our Fullness because a lot of times, the concept or the idea of food freedom sounds a little crazy to people. They'll say, "Well, I mean, freedom like yeah, I can have everything, but I can't have everything." And I'm like, "Okay, all right. Let's like tackle that. Let's go down that road a little bit." But the idea of food freedom, people interpret that as, "Oh, I would go crazy. Oh, I would." You know, they can't even imagine I would. Uh, well, I can't be trusted. And, but somewhere along the line in our journey, we were told to stop trusting our internal cues and start using external cues to decide, is it time to eat? Is that okay for me to eat? Am I allowed to eat that? And so we transfer the internal cues and we transfer to the external cues. And so this idea of food freedom, then, because people have lived sort of a restrictive managing, controlling hunger, then they think food freedom means, ah, I'm gonna go crazy, right? I'm gonna have everything I've never ever had, right? And the whole idea of food freedom is I'm free to say yes and I'm free to say no.
Amy Carlson [00:12:13 - 00:12:35]: I'm free to say no when I'm full, which actually can be very conflicting in this culture too, because I often give this example. If somebody were to say, oh, do you want a piece of cake? And I was full and I were to say no, they would say, are you trying to be good? Are you trying to be good? Oh, are you trying to be good? Are you trying to— are you on something? And it's like, no, I'm just full. I'm actually just— I'm just full.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:12:35 - 00:12:36]: I'm just full.
Amy Carlson [00:12:36 - 00:12:37]: There's the freedom right there.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:12:37 - 00:12:39]: I'm full. I'm satisfied.
Amy Carlson [00:12:39 - 00:12:40]: I'm satisfied. I'm OK.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:12:41 - 00:12:41]: I'm good.
Amy Carlson [00:12:41 - 00:12:42]: I'm good.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:12:42 - 00:12:49]: But it seems like this concept that some of us, when we're so into that culture, we can't even—
Amy Carlson [00:12:50 - 00:12:51]: No. Blinded.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:12:51 - 00:12:52]: Imagine. No.
Amy Carlson [00:12:52 - 00:13:24]: And a lot of times people will say, well, what's something new that you have to share? And I'll say, I cannot even tell you how much people need to hear this over and over. Like, it isn't— because finding intuitive eating, and not just intuitive eating, but finding that food freedom and finding like, what does my body need, and listening to my body is not something that we do temporarily. It's not like, oh, I— oh, that's just one version of, you know, people say, well, you found something that works for you. It's like, no, nope, nope.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:13:24 - 00:13:24]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:13:24 - 00:13:53]: That's actually not what that is. That's actually— it is a forever thing. I never— I have this beautiful, precious teen client who has gotten so much freedom over the last year and she said, I literally thought I was gonna have to diet for my whole life. I honestly, the way I grew up, the way I was taught, I thought I was gonna have to diet my whole life and I can't even— I don't have to diet. I don't have to diet my whole life. I don't have to diet. I don't have to diet. I want the whole world to know you don't have to diet your whole life.
Amy Carlson [00:13:53 - 00:14:20]: But she said, but that's— That's what I witnessed. That's what I heard around me. That's what I heard. She is 17 and now knows she doesn't have to diet for her whole life. I feel like she's like a little bird that's just like flying going, I don't have to diet my whole life, and wants everyone to know it. And you know what? She's not getting great reception. People are like, well, you know, you found something that works for you. And it's like, wait.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:14:20 - 00:14:21]: Yeah. What?
Amy Carlson [00:14:23 - 00:14:30]: Like, the reception is not that great because people can't imagine that that's true. Isn't that— say something.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:14:30 - 00:14:30]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:14:30 - 00:15:12]: Isn't that wild? That says something. And, you know, people talk about how far we've come, let's just say as women. I'm so glad if there's men listening to this too, we want you here. I want you here. But just think how far we've come as women when we kind of talk about like, oh, you know, we can— Vote, we can, you know, all these things that have happened even before, you know, our lifetime, but within, you know, the last century. And yet we as women are still trying so hard to conform to one chair. I say it's like playing musical chairs, and we're all trying to fit into the same chair. And it's like, no, no, no, this is like, there's one version of a body.
Amy Carlson [00:15:13 - 00:15:52]: And I'll show, you know, old magazines to my clients, old ones that my mama used to have, that are like, you know, dieting, diet, exercise, and the calorie restrictions are about 500 to 800 calories. These— and there's like images of women doing like slimming exercises. Well, I showed this to a college student not long ago, and she said, oh my word, that's crazy. And I'm showing her the images and we're laughing, you know, we're giggling like over the It was like liver cutlets for breakfast, you know? I mean, it was pretty— it was like a gag reflex.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:15:53 - 00:15:53]: That's torture.
Amy Carlson [00:15:53 - 00:16:19]: It was a gag reflex. I'm gonna be honest. It was like a gag reflex. So she and I are giggling and laughing and I said, wait. Hmm. This is so curious to me. I said, where have you seen this recently? And she goes, what? And I said, no, seriously. Like, where have you seen this? And she sat there and she looked at me and she said, Oh, Pinterest, TikTok, Instagram.
Amy Carlson [00:16:19 - 00:16:58]: And I said, yeah, same thing, darling. It's the same thing. I said, the message is the same. The message is the same. And she just sat there kind of with that like stunned revelation of going, oh, that's gross. Oh my goodness. I'm letting some image on social media or something— and for women back then it was magazines. And many of the authors of the The dieting, self-control kind of books that my mom had were men with no degree in nutrition, or they were like, you know, an Army guy and a, you know, a chaplain.
Amy Carlson [00:16:58 - 00:17:12]: And it was just so like, wow, really? What's going on here? And so you could see this sort of revelation in her eyes go, oh yeah, that I am. Like, what am I consuming in my social media that's telling me you need to be a different version of yourself?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:17:12 - 00:17:12]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:17:13 - 00:17:40]: And here's how to get there. Here's that— because what happens is, if we're talking about old-school food rules, it's new-school food rules, we just compound them and we just sort of add them to our list, and then we just keep putting them in our backpack and we never take them out of our backpack to evaluate if they're true or relevant or anything. And suddenly the only thing I can eat is quinoa and, uh, a baked beet. I don't— it's like, what's left? Actually, that sounded really gross. I hope that did sound gross.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:17:42 - 00:17:43]: It was not appetizing to me. No.
Amy Carlson [00:17:43 - 00:17:45]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:17:45 - 00:17:57]: You know, it's, that's, it's so true. And, and I think the process of learning, unlearn, it's like we have to unlearn step by step all these things that we've learned.
Amy Carlson [00:17:57 - 00:17:57]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:17:57 - 00:18:06]: Like you said, putting, put in our backpack. We gotta take them out one at a time. Mm-hmm. And not just take them out, but like take them out and replace them with God's truth.
Amy Carlson [00:18:06 - 00:18:06]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:07 - 00:18:19]: From the Bible. What does the Bible say? What does he say? How did he design— what is the actual old-school food freedom that he designed in, you know, in the beginning? Yeah.
Jesus, Relationship, and Eating
Amy Carlson [00:18:19 - 00:18:21]: And you know what is so compelling?Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:21 - 00:18:21]: This—
Amy Carlson [00:18:21 - 00:18:26]: if you want to get me on a soapbox, Chrissy, just put it up there. Here we go. Here it's coming.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:26 - 00:18:27]: Are you ready? Okay.
Amy Carlson [00:18:27 - 00:18:27]: I'm ready.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:28 - 00:18:28]: Okay.
Amy Carlson [00:18:30 - 00:18:59]: One of the things that we talk about so much when we're talking about recovering our peace of food and when people are getting freedom, right, is this unbelievable, you know, like, oh, this is so compelling. And like that sweet girl who's like, I want everyone to know and you don't have to diet. One of the things that we don't talk about, and I feel passionate about doing, is that Jesus does things relationally. When we read the Gospels, He is relational.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:59 - 00:18:59]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:18:59 - 00:19:25]: What He does is relational. He does ministry in relation. He didn't have to invite the 12 disciples. He did. He does things in relation in His family context. As a child, He is born into a family, and so His ministry is done relationally, and He eats relationally. I mean, the Passover meal, then transformed into the communion table, is done in relationship. That is done as a body of believers.
Amy Carlson [00:19:25 - 00:20:10]: And so He sanctified and made holy even the act of eating, but He does it when He feeds the 5,000. And He does it when He transformed water into wine. And so He does this in relation. And what we do as people, as humans right now, whether you are a Christian or not, is that we do all of this in a vacuum. So individually, what's right for me? Now, I'm not talking about I have diabetes and I need to change some of the way I eat, or I have celiac. I'm not talking about that. Of course, those are individual needs that that are important and relevant. But I'm talking about families that go to a quote unquote nutritionist and come back with 5 different ways of eating and can't sit at the table together because none of them can eat the same thing.
Amy Carlson [00:20:11 - 00:20:58]: I'm talking about one of my clients who goes to a preschool training at church and she sits around a table with adults in this preschool training for lunch and none of them are eating because they're all on different diets. Now she's getting free and she comes back confused. This is the thing. Jesus ate in relationship. We cannot get better outside. Our eating isn't supposed to be taken out of context. It's in context, not only in our relationship with the Lord, but our relationship with other people and our relationship with the earth. How— what is this impacting? How is this impacting the farmers that are growing it? How is this impacting our earth? How is it impacting people? How is it impacting my family the way that I'm eating? If I'm on a diet and I am a beast to be with, I am irritable.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:20:58 - 00:20:58]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:20:59 - 00:21:26]: And I can't even stand myself. How am I impacting? It doesn't happen in a vacuum. I mean, I understood food rules and dieting because my mom was on and off a diet my whole life. That didn't happen in a vacuum. It impacted me. I went on to have a full-blown eating disorder, not just because of my mama, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. And so freedom doesn't happen in a vacuum either. And when we think about our eating relationally, This should excite us.
Amy Carlson [00:21:26 - 00:21:36]: This should make us so— I bet you have a story. I'm sure you have a story of how you getting free has impacted those around you. Oh, of course.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:21:36 - 00:21:39]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:21:40 - 00:21:54]: Right? And everyone who gets free has a story of how it impacts, because it doesn't happen— it doesn't happen just for us. It happens. And as believers, when our eyes are— love your neighbor as yourself should impact the way that we eat. Isn't that interesting?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:21:54 - 00:21:56]: It is. It really is.
Amy Carlson [00:21:57 - 00:21:59]: You're like, hmm, I know.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:21:59 - 00:22:00]: I'm curious.
Amy Carlson [00:22:00 - 00:22:00]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:22:01 - 00:22:05]: I'm like internally processing. Wow. It's deep.
Amy Carlson [00:22:05 - 00:22:07]: It's deep. It's deep.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:22:07 - 00:22:11]: And I feel like I, I have an easier time loving my neighbor than myself sometimes.
Amy Carlson [00:22:12 - 00:22:12]: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:22:12 - 00:22:38]: So that's my hesitation is like, I am, I can love other people pretty well. But I have a hard time sometimes just loving myself or just be— you know, I've worked through a lot of the self-loathing piece of my story and my journey. And, um, so too, I'm giving— every day there's more grace offered to Chrissy from Chrissy. Yes. Um, with love.
Amy Carlson [00:22:39 - 00:22:59]: Yeah. And think about how that impacts, though. Think about how beautiful that is because your story Um, whether you want it to or not, positively impacts those around you. And it's nothing you have to do. You didn't have to force it or manufacture it. It just does. And but what we think is, I can be on a diet and it's not going to impact anyone. But it does. Chrissy Kirkman [00:22:59 - 00:22:59]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:23:00 - 00:23:26]: It does. It absolutely impacts those around us, especially as mothers and wives and dads and husbands. And, um, you know, I have, I have kids that are like, oh, my teacher talks about their diet all the time and I'm confused and conflicted and Coaches. And, um, so relationally we think, well, Jesus did everything in relation and ministry, and it's just a beautiful model for us. I think I, I, it's a whole nother podcast, whole nother podcast, Christy. Whole nother podcast.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:23:26 - 00:23:28]: It sure is. All right. Noted.
Amy Carlson [00:23:28 - 00:23:28]: Noted.
Food Freedom and the Eden Narrative
Chrissy Kirkman [00:23:29 - 00:23:42]: Check. Check for season 2. Um, so you and I in our pre-production call, we were talking about, you know, the way it was in Eden. Yeah. Yeah. And how the enemy leads us to question God.Amy Carlson [00:23:42 - 00:23:42]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:23:42 - 00:23:44]: Let's talk about that.
Amy Carlson [00:23:44 - 00:24:56]: Yeah, you know, I love sharing this because I think as believers, again, we so often think about it just in terms of like it's our own personal sort of like battle and, you know, I'm doing good or I'm doing bad with this. But one of the things that we see, again, relationally, right? Adam and Eve were in the garden in relation. And the enemy, one of the things that he did right then and there that we witness, that we bear witness when we hear this story, Yeah. Is he questions God's character to Eve. He assaults God's character really by putting into question, did he really tell you not to eat from that tree? And so of course we know that he did because we read it in scripture before that, just a few verses before. But Eve begins to question whether God— did he really say that? And then he's just, you know, kind of like, where? Why, why would he say that, right? Like, why? And Eve begins to wonder, is God holding out on me? Is God holding out on me? And then now I'm starting to doubt God's character, his care for me. He's holding out on me, and now I need to take it for myself. And so we're doing that all the time.
Amy Carlson [00:24:57 - 00:25:03]: And I loved your response. It's like the OG, uh, gaslighting, right? It's like the original gaslighting was—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:25:03 - 00:25:09]: I mean, how did I not see it? Like, the enemy, that was That's the first example of gaslighting.
Amy Carlson [00:25:09 - 00:25:11]: Right. Yeah. I mean, he says to Eve, like, wait.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:25:11 - 00:25:16]: We are being gaslighted. We're being gaslighted. Yeah. Gaslit? Gaslit? Gaslit? I don't know.
Amy Carlson [00:25:16 - 00:25:52]: Gaslighting? Gaslitting? Yeah, we are. I mean, he says to Eve, really? For real? Wait, for real? God said that? And Eve's like, wait, did he? I don't— did he say that? And then basically she starts to question. And we do that over and over. God's holding out on me. I've got to take it for myself. God's holding on to me. He does not have my good in mind. Honestly, when we ask ourselves that, if I were to say, do I believe God has my good in mind? I mean, the reality is a lot of us live in bodies that we feel have betrayed us, that we feel that we have to control and manage.
Amy Carlson [00:25:52 - 00:26:03]: And the reality is we do. We live in a broken world. These bodies do. They are subject to decay. They're subject to decay. They're subject to disease. They're subject to—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:26:03 - 00:26:03]: Death.
Amy Carlson [00:26:05 - 00:26:30]: abuse. Most of my clients have experienced some level of trauma. These are broken bodies. And so what we're not trying to do is restore perfection, but that is what advertising tells us, that we are trying to restore perfection. And only in Christ are we perfected. And so we're trying to get from the world what only God can offer. That is a dead-end street, and we keep circling. It's like a cul-de-sac.
Amy Carlson [00:26:31 - 00:26:36]: It's like, Chrissy, come out of the cul-de-sac. Come on, get off the hamster wheel.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:26:36 - 00:26:36]: Yes.
Amy Carlson [00:26:37 - 00:26:56]: Get off your trike. Come on, we've got a hoverboard and we're going straight. You're like, I can't get off the cul-de-sac. It's like we're trying to get from the world what only God can do. And you know what? It's exhausting. And so that's one of the reasons that it's like, well, that— people will often say, well, that diet worked for me. I really did. It worked for me for a while.
Amy Carlson [00:26:56 - 00:27:21]: And You know, I just didn't, I didn't commit. You know, it's always like, what didn't I do right with the diet? Rather than, well, the diet stunk. I mean, that's reality. The diet's not made, it's not sustainable, it's not life-giving, it's not relational, it's not meeting your needs. That's what's true rather than you failed the diet. And so, wow, what freedom. Oh, I just want to, I just want to shout it. There's freedom.
Amy Carlson [00:27:21 - 00:27:23]: There's freedom coming, y'all. There's freedom coming.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:27:24 - 00:27:46]: I love what you just said, and it put me in a place of, of a listener who might be thinking, it all sounds good, but I don't even know how to start. I don't even know where to start. I don't even know, like, I still feel like this is my fault. There's like, the enemy really loves to pour the shame on.
Amy Carlson [00:27:46 - 00:27:46]: Yeah.
Shame, Diet Culture, and First Steps
Chrissy Kirkman [00:27:46 - 00:28:01]: I mean, and so if someone's feeling so much shame, like, but you don't understand, my history, or you don't understand this about my body or about me, or if I just have more self-control, or in the past I've seen success, air quotes. Yeah.Amy Carlson [00:28:02 - 00:28:38]: So one thing is, you're right, I have— if, if I don't know you and you're listening to the podcast, I don't know your story. But I will say this, your story is important. That's the very first session I have with any client is I just say, tell me your story. Because we can be benevolent witnesses to each other of what our stories are. And they're unique and they're important and they're compelling and they just matter. They matter. Again, that's why relationships are so important. But I always tell people, as a dietitian with a master's in nutrition, I can give you 52 ways to lose weight.
Amy Carlson [00:28:39 - 00:28:41]: That's not— that's really so—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:28:41 - 00:28:41]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:28:41 - 00:29:24]: You have seen success as the measure of success is, was I able to see the number on the scale change? And that's probably true. We can do that in a lot of different ways. We can restrict, we can restrict macronutrients. We can, you know, do big— we can fast, we can do different things and see that number change, but it's usually short-term and it's usually not sustainable. So sustainable Right? A way of sustainable living is very different than dieting success. And that's why people would even begin to listen or seek something different is because they're like, man, I have dieted and it just doesn't last. And the reality is it doesn't last for most people. It doesn't last.
Amy Carlson [00:29:24 - 00:30:08]: That's why they're circling on to the next thing and the next thing. It's also why when somebody finds something that quote unquote works, like to lose weight, and really they have to— they're they're really committed. A lot of times I'll say they're preaching the gospel of such and such diet and they want to tell everybody, you know, they feel really, really— but they have to be so bought in for it to last and to kind of— and then when it doesn't, then there's this whole shame factor that comes back in, which is, I gave up. I was so good for a while. I felt this high. It's a dieting high. You know, if you're listening to this, you've probably felt it before. And the reality is, yeah, Chrissy's like, my hand is—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:30:08 - 00:30:13]: you can't see me, but my hand is being raised to the roof. I get that. That's been me.
Amy Carlson [00:30:13 - 00:30:38]: That dieting high. And some people say when they're in recovery that that's one of the things that they grieve and miss is sort of that like hope of the next diet, you know, kind of that promise of the next quick fix. And so, um, really that success is, is if you look back in retrospect and you go, wow, it was always temporary. And so that's one of the reasons you're even listening to a podcast like this is you're going, I want something different. I want something long-lasting.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:30:38 - 00:30:39]: True.
Amy Carlson [00:30:39 - 00:31:06]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the enemy is always the enemy. He's always going to be telling us. The other thing is when we're, when we are searching to solve our problem, quote unquote, um, through our own means and method, it's like getting on a conveyor belt that goes nowhere. So can, if you could just have this image of everyone on this conveyor belt, that's just headed to nowhere. It's like, we need to stop and get off and look at each other and go, where are we going? To what end?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:31:06 - 00:31:08]: Does anyone have a clue what we're actually doing here?
Amy Carlson [00:31:08 - 00:31:34]: Where's— where's— I don't— it's like, can we get off the conveyor belt and look at each other and go, where are we going? It's like, nowhere, actually. We're actually— we're like in a weird, like, sci-fi movie of, like, never-ending dieting until we're 80. And then it's like, where did that get us? Right? It got us away from the table, away from people, away from relationships, away from our true self. Wow, that's exhausting.
Breaking Isolation and Choosing Freedom
Chrissy Kirkman [00:31:35 - 00:31:55]: Yo, you know what? That, that sounds like this pandemic that we've just— everything you named. Yeah, it's this division. It's, it's pulling us into isolation and it's hard to want to go back into, to back to church or back to work or back to in the public. And then when you do, everybody's still coming off this. It's kind of weird.Amy Carlson [00:31:55 - 00:31:55]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:31:55 - 00:31:59]: And we have a different feeling, but it's similar. Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:31:59 - 00:31:59]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:31:59 - 00:32:03]: And the dieting, like moving from dieting to freedom.
Amy Carlson [00:32:03 - 00:32:06]: Yes. Yes. Let's get off the conveyor belt and just look at each other and go, where should we—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:32:07 - 00:32:07]: let's—
Amy Carlson [00:32:07 - 00:32:07]: where should we go?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:32:08 - 00:32:09]: Where are we headed? Let's make a plan.
Amy Carlson [00:32:10 - 00:32:10]: Let's make a plan.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:32:11 - 00:32:11]: Where's our ticket?
Amy Carlson [00:32:12 - 00:32:13]: Yes. Yes.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:32:13 - 00:32:35]: Yes. So good. Thank you, Amy. So my last question for this, uh, this episode is just describe to us the last time you experienced true freedom. What did that look like for you in relationship to food or anything? It can be any type of food or any type of freedom, but it can be food-related if you like.
Amy's Personal Freedom
Amy Carlson [00:32:36 - 00:33:13]: Okay, well, let me think about that. Um, you know, I have 4 kids and, um, I have a daughter and 3 boys. 2 are in college. And 2 still at home. And I recently— my kids have a lot of big things going on in their lives. And recently, I had a feeling with the Lord, kind of one of those moments where you have an epiphany with the Lord and you're like, just me and you, Lord, we're having this epiphany together. But I recognized that I was able to enter into my children's pain and story without having to fix or control it.Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:13 - 00:33:13]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:33:14 - 00:33:40]: And it was so freeing. And watching trusting the Lord have, you know, real meat on it where it's like, oh Lord, I trust you with these things. This is so freeing. And I remember feeling so free because I am somebody who likes to— I like to get things done. I like to produce. I like— I can— I'm a fixer, you know, like, got it, let's fix it. I'm on it. I'll make that call.
Amy Carlson [00:33:40 - 00:33:41]: Let me— oh, this—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:41 - 00:33:42]: Yeah.
Amy Carlson [00:33:42 - 00:33:54]: furniture didn't get delivered, I'm on it. I'll call that, you know. And so recognizing that their stories are their stories and I just get to be part of it in a different way was very freeing. Very, very freeing.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:54 - 00:34:35]: That's so freeing. I feel like that could also really encourage if there are parents or loved ones, you know, people that have a loved one that's struggling with— like, your example wasn't necessarily an eating disorder, but like, if there's someone who watches someone they love go through an eating disorder and battle this every day, and how it affects your marriage and your relationship as father and daughter, mother and daughter, son, just to be encouraged to know that, like, we understand that's hard to let go, just to open our palms. Lord, I let go, and I trust you. And then move them from a posture of like, I give up, to like, I trust you.
Amy Carlson [00:34:35 - 00:34:35]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:34:36 - 00:34:44]: put your hands open, palms out, and like, I receive what it is you have, especially when it's not the way I would—
Amy Carlson [00:34:45 - 00:34:45]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:34:46 - 00:34:46]: Imagine it.
Amy Carlson [00:34:46 - 00:34:46]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:34:47 - 00:35:06]: Um, Lord, I am trusting you. And, um, you know, at Finding Balance, we have prayer groups for loved ones that we meet weekly and, and pray with you through that and help you just walk daily, you know, to surrender That desire to want to try to fix it because we can't. Like, He's the healer.
Amy Carlson [00:35:07 - 00:35:50]: Yeah, I love that, Chrissy. Actually, that is such a beautiful, beautiful example of walking things out where you're fully present but surrendered to the outcome. You know, you don't have to be— we are not the ultimate fixer in those things. On a lighter note, driving my son across the country a month ago to college, And we were in the middle of nowhere and we ate at this burger place that, um, was fascinating. And I had the biggest, juiciest burger with fries and a weird mystery sauce, and it was fabulous. And I, I, I laughed because I thought there was a time in my life where I could have never done this, and it was just absolutely fabulous. So that's on a lighter note. Food freedom.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:35:51 - 00:35:53]: That is such good food freedom.
Amy Carlson [00:35:54 - 00:35:58]: A good burger, a good juicy burger with mystery sauce.
Closing and Resources
Chrissy Kirkman [00:36:00 - 00:36:07]: Wonderful, Amy. It was so much fun to have you here. You're a blessing. Thank you so much for being on our show.Amy Carlson [00:36:07 - 00:36:12]: I am thrilled to be here, and I love all your listeners. So thanks for having me, Chrissy.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:36:17 - 00:36:48]: Thank you for listening to the Old School Food Freedom Podcast. For over 20 years, Finding Balance has been helping people. We want to help people walk in freedom by discovering where Jesus fits into their struggles with food and body image. If you want more biblical truth and encouragement, head on over to findingbalance.com and subscribe to our free Daily Vitamin devotional. While you're there, explore our Christ-centered Lasting Freedom online course and small group tools. You can help keep this ministry going by donating today at findingbalance.com.
Amy Carlson [00:36:48 - 00:36:49]: See you there!
Chrissy Kirkman [00:36:49 - 00:37:10]: Bye! See you next time. The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prescribe a particular course of action. If you or someone you care about is battling an eating disorder or is experiencing unmanageable thoughts or feelings, please call 911 if in the US or visit your nearest emergency room.
