Back to Eden: Finding Food Freedom in God's Original Design with Angelica Gonzalez, LMHC, MsEd
“What does it look like to know that you're not alone? What does it look like to be able to know that everything that He created was good?"
If you have ever felt the exhaustion of trying to earn your way into feeling okay in your body, of counting and restricting and measuring and still feeling like you're falling short, you already know what this feels like. Somewhere along the way, food and body image stopped being about hunger and became about worthiness. And for those of us who have wrestled with body image issues, eating disorders, or the quiet trauma underneath both, the noise gets loud enough that we forget what quiet ever sounded like.
Today on the Old School Food Freedom Podcast, Chrissy sits down with Angelica Gonzalez, licensed psychotherapist and clinical director consultant with FINDINGbalance, to take us back to Eden and remind us what freedom was really designed to feel like.
Angelica is the founder of Eden Therapy Co and a featured expert in FINDINGbalance's Lasting Freedom course. She's a psychotherapist who has spent years working at the intersection of eating disorders, trauma, and the faith questions underneath both. She brings the clinical training and the deep faith into the same room, and she doesn't flinch from either side of that.
Here's what we cover:
Why Genesis 1:31 changes everything about how you see your body, and what "very good" meant when God said it the first time
How trauma and eating disorders get tangled together, and why healing one without addressing the other keeps you stuck
How to invite the Holy Spirit into your healing as an active partner, with prompts you can start using today
Why comparison and perfectionism function like spiritual covetousness, even when they feel like discipline
The three practical tools Angelica gives listeners to start healing this week
Christian counseling, small groups, and community as non-negotiables, plus what to do if you can't find a Christian therapist near you
What true freedom looks like, and why Angelica compares it to David dancing unabashedly before the Lord
If you’ve been trying to think your way into freedom or discipline your way into worthiness for so long that you can't remember what the Garden felt like, this episode was made for you. What Angelica offers is an invitation back into a place you have been walking away from without realizing it.
"He will reveal what He plans to heal. And that revelation comes through time. It's not a one-and-done." - Angelica Gonzalez
Back to Eden isn't a place you visit once and get fixed. It's a daily practice of walking in, stepping out, and walking back in when you notice you have wandered. The Garden was never complicated. You walked with God and talked with Him. You ate. You lived in your body without shame. There was no comparison. Everything He made was good, including you, your body, and every part of you that has felt too broken to be loved. Healing from disordered eating and body image struggles starts when you stop trying to earn your way back and remember that you were already good in His eyes, walking into the Garden with the One who has been waiting there the whole time.
Freedom is never on the other side of a different body. The body you have right now can walk with Jesus in the Garden today. Send this to a friend who needs to hear this message, too.
We’d love to hear your thoughts, so please drop us an email at admin@findingbalance.com, send us a voice message via SpeakPipe, or you can also subscribe for more practical episodes coming your way.
More About Angelica Gonzalez
Angelica is a multilingual psychotherapist and founder of Eden Therapy Co, specializing in eating disorders, trauma, and self-injury. With over a decade of experience, she integrates CBT, DBT, psychodrama, and EMDR in her work with adolescents, adults, families, and groups. She began her career at Miami Children’s Hospital, where she worked in psychiatric and eating-disorder inpatient settings. She taught at the University of Miami and has spoken nationally and internationally on trauma and recovery. Angelica hosts the podcast Eden's Table alongside her team, exploring the intersection of faith, psychology, and healing.
Connect with Angelica Gonzalez
Christian Treatment Finder Profile
Mentioned References
Mentioned Scriptures
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CHRIST-CENTERED RESOURCES TO HELP YOU FIND FREEDOM
The Daily Vitamin eDevo: A free devotional with bite-sized truth emailed 5 days a week
Community Groups: Find connection with prayer groups and our Hello, Freedom! community.
Christian Treatment Finder: Connecting you with Christian providers experienced in treating eating issues.
Lasting Freedom Online Course: A Christ-centered, non-diet course to work through false beliefs about food and weight so you can live free from disordered eating and body image issues.
CREDITS:
Intro music by “MokkaMusic” – Old Jeans (Funk)
Production & Editing by Marketing With Wisdom
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The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prescribe a particular course of action. If you have, or suspect you may have, an eating disorder, please consult your healthcare provider. If you desire to receive faith-based care, visit ChristianTreatmentFinder.com to browse professionals with a Kingdom campaign against eating disorders.
More about the Old School Food Freedom Podcast
In today’s diet-culture society, food issues and body hatred have become the norm. But you were created to be FREE. Welcome to Old School Food Freedom, where we go back to the basics, God’s basics, for how we view food, our bodies, and our worth.
Hosted by FINDINGbalance Executive Director Chrissy Kirkman, this podcast features Biblically-sound experts, thought-leaders, artists, and everyday people who will inspire you to interrupt negative cultural soundtracks and rediscover God’s original design for your relationship with food and your body.
This show will deliver practical, faith-filled insights on how to break free from diet culture and body shame through the lens of scripture. If you’re looking for guidance on how to heal your relationship with food while deepening your faith, you're in the right place.
We’ll answer questions like
What does the Bible say about food freedom?
How can I overcome an eating disorder or disordered eating with Jesus?
What is the biblical perspective on diet culture?
How can I find peace with food as a Christian?
What does it mean to treat your body as a temple in relation to eating?
How can I break free from diet culture with Jesus?
How can I align my eating habits with biblical teachings?
What are the first steps to finding food freedom in Christ?
This podcast is for anyone ready to walk away from diet culture and into the freedom that Christ offers. Whether you’re recovering from an eating disorder, disordered eating, wrestling with body image, or simply craving a more peaceful relationship with food, this space was made for you.
If you want to experience true food freedom with Jesus, this podcast will give you the encouragement, truth, and tools to do just that.
The unedited transcript for this episode of Old School Food Freedom
Angelica Gonzalez [00:00:53 - 00:00:56]: Hi, Chrissy. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:00:57 - 00:02:03]: I'm really happy to have you on today. So before we get into it, let me tell our listeners all about you. With more than a decade in the field of psychotherapy, Angelica Gonzalez began working in the field at Miami Children's Hospital in the psychiatric ward and moved to the field of trauma. Working in an inpatient treatment center, she gained experience working with groups, families, and individuals with eating disorders. Angelica established a private practice in 2013, working with creative and evidence-based practices, including creative interventions, psychodrama, inner healing, cognitive behavioral therapy, and dialectical behavior therapy. She has recently become certified in EMDR and attended the Global Awakening Online College of Ministry. Angelica has served as clinical director and programming consultant at Finding Balance, was a featured speaker at our Hungry for Hope events and an expert in our Lasting Freedom course. Wow, you have done so many great things, Angelica, and thank you for all the time and heart and soul you've invested into Finding Balance.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:02:03 - 00:02:08]: The blessing is all mine. I'm so grateful to be part of this community.
Old-School Nostalgia
Chrissy Kirkman [00:02:08 - 00:02:19]: Well, the way we like to get our shows kicked off is I want to know, what is an old-school item from back in the day that you miss that we don't have now?Angelica Gonzalez [00:02:20 - 00:02:38]: So there were these pencil cases that they opened on both sides and they had like all these buttons that you could press and it would like shoot out a sharpener. And then it had like all these little places for your pencils. And on the other side it was magnetically open and it had— and it was always like some cute fun pattern on the box.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:02:38 - 00:02:56]: And the smell of that. Do you remember the smell? I love the smell of crayons and pencils. Yeah, the shavings. Oh, that is very nostalgic. That's amazing. Yeah, what a good one. Okay, that— no, I don't think anyone's done that yet. That goes along with the Trapper Keeper.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:02:57 - 00:03:04]: And if you can— if there are those little rings that fit into the Trapper Keeper, then you open it up and you've got the best of both worlds.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:03:05 - 00:03:08]: Yes, you did. I loved the organization. It was done for you.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:09 - 00:03:37]: Yeah, we need— and I think there's probably still pencil cases out there, but We're adulting now and you don't use them as much. Maybe some, some do. I don't know. Well, today our interview is, to me, is super exciting because it's very much the essence of just the fact that we named this the Old School Food Freedom Podcast. And old school means different things to different people and what generation you're in. Like, it could mean something totally different.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:03:38 - 00:03:38]: Yeah.
Bringing It Back to the Garden: God's Original Design
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:39 - 00:03:51]: But when we talk about old school in this context, it's taking it back as far as when God created the heavens and the earth, and he created us. He said it was good.Angelica Gonzalez [00:03:51 - 00:03:52]: Yes.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:03:52 - 00:04:37]: Very good. But we named it Old School Food Freedom because it's back to the Garden of Eden. That's what today's episode is. You're gonna take us back to the garden and help us understand what did freedom, what was it supposed to look like? What did it originally look like? What is God's original design And we've talked on the podcast already about the fact that diet culture has changed a lot of things, and it's made it really hard for us to know how that looks and to separate the truth from the lies. Because sometimes the lies sound a lot like truth, but they're distorted in a way that it's like, okay, yeah, that must be God's way.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:04:38 - 00:04:38]: Right.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:04:38 - 00:04:44]: But in reality, it's not. So, Angelica, I'm going to let you go right in from the beginning.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:04:45 - 00:06:14]: So, I love that you talked about how God said that it was good, because that's exactly what we read in Genesis 1:31, which is that everything that God made was good at the end of creation. And just hearing from what you were saying, when we talk about the freedom that God created us to be, when you look into Genesis again, which is the beginning, the creation. You see that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and that God created it all, and that there was the Holy Spirit that was always hovering. So it's really interesting because we could take it a step further and really understand that the Holy Spirit is always with us, which is a part of God, right? So God being 3 parts: God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Spirit. He's always with us. You know, and as you continue to read through Genesis, Genesis 2:8, it says that they heard the sound of the Lord as he— as they were walking in the garden, which to us we could infer, right? And, and I'm not a theologian, so like we could infer that God's original design for us was just to walk in paradise, to eat what we need to eat, to be comfortable with our bodies, and to just walk with him and be with him. And I find it just So beautiful that that is really what true freedom is, is just to be able to walk with him, you know, every day, all the time, and be in relationship with him.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:06:14 - 00:06:15]: And no shame.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:06:16 - 00:06:16]: None.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:06:16 - 00:06:41]: There's no shame there. That's, that's what I think when I, when I think about what the Garden of Eden would have looked like before the serpent entered. And just to be just— I mean, that is true freedom. No shame, no condemnation anywhere to be found. It's that relationship and that connection with God, just the way He— just in that perfection, just the way He meant it to be.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:06:42 - 00:06:52]: Absolutely. That's what I think of too, and how awesome it is that we can always run to Him, right? And we can walk with Him, and that shame does not belong to us.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:06:53 - 00:06:53]: Absolutely.
Trauma and the Inner Eden
Angelica Gonzalez [00:06:54 - 00:07:44]: It's beautiful. So Chrissy, when you started talking about the garden and about this podcast, I just started thinking about how we all have different parts. So we have this part of us that may walk with God, but then we may have other parts of us. And I think that parts work is something that a lot of times we don't talk about. But in the quest to find freedom, just like certain things entered the garden, which made it difficult for us to continue to walk in that freedom, we also have what I call our inner Eden. And then we have our external Eden. And our inner Eden inside of us can be hurt by many things, including trauma, which is one of the things that I love to speak about. So in this internal Eden, like, we're born and that's it.Angelica Gonzalez [00:07:44 - 00:07:57]: Like, we have— we start forming our inner garden. But what happens when something like trauma hits us, right? Something traumatic, whether it's something we witness, whether it's something that is done to us. I'm talking about, like, the overall—
Chrissy Kirkman [00:07:57 - 00:07:58]: Yeah.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:07:58 - 00:09:21]: trauma kind of covering is that as a little person or even as an adult, we may need certain things to help protect us. And this is what I really believe is the beginning of, like, these parts that are created that can get fragmented or can be kind of, like, split off because they're really there to help us. So not everybody is all good and not everybody is all bad. We all have parts. And I'm not saying that parts are good or bad, but we all have parts and Part of what I wanted to bring up is that I think that a lot of people don't, don't really think of this, right? They don't think that there's the possibility of good and bad, or that— and not even bad or good, I don't want to label it, but we all have different parts that serve different functions. So I want you to think of like a glass jar, and when it falls and it shatters, there's like all these little pieces that come out of it. Well, that's true to us, right? That's the impact of trauma on us. Like, when something hits us, or whether external or internal, something happens within our heart that there's a piece of it that kind of starts to form either to protect us in the form of an eating disorder, anxiety, lies that the enemy is going to start bringing in because of that pain.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:09:21 - 00:09:22]: Yeah.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:09:22 - 00:10:36]: Um, so the plan of the enemy is to keep us in darkness, right? But the plan of Jesus was really to walk and to talk with us. And, um, one of the really cool tools— so as, as we were preparing for today, I really hope that people can walk away with tools— is, um, introducing Jesus. So whenever that moment of trauma or that moment of difficulty came across, What would happen if we introduced Jesus? If you ask Jesus, like, where were you? Many times I find, and that's an inner healing tool. And many times I find that if people can't see him, there may be a distortion in the way that you're seeing God. Because if you think about it, he's with us all the time. He's omnipresent. So what would it be like to bring someone like Jesus into the room? And to see like, where were you and what were you doing? It's been really powerful in a lot of my sessions to ask clients when they're ready, you know, where was Jesus and what was he doing? One of my clients was like, he's kneeling on the floor and he's crying next to me. And it just adds that piece of, you know, we're not alone.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:10:36 - 00:10:39]: Again, going back to the garden, he's walking with us.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:10:39 - 00:10:39]: Yeah.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:10:40 - 00:10:58]: You know, so if you are somebody who has been through something difficult, you might want to check and see, you know, okay, well, when I was there, like, where were you? You know, because he doesn't leave us alone. As a matter of fact, it says he leaves the 99 to find the one. And in that moment, you might have been the one.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:10:58 - 00:11:49]: So good. And I recently went through, I've been going through a workbook that talks about that. It had that in as an exercise of inviting Jesus in to this traumatic or bad thing that happened in your past and visualizing that. That was a game changer for me because I had never even— I knew God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, they have always been with me, but I never stopped to look at, like, visualize how did that look? And it felt very different. And it made my current experience of the past situation felt very different all of a sudden. I hope that makes sense. But it felt very different. I do have a question.
Understanding Protective Parts and Eating Disorders
Chrissy Kirkman [00:11:49 - 00:11:59]: When you said that there are different parts of us, like an eating disorder might happen to protect us, can you go into that a little bit?Angelica Gonzalez [00:11:59 - 00:11:59]: Yes.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:11:59 - 00:12:03]: Because I feel like our listeners may need to understand that a little bit further.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:12:04 - 00:13:16]: So if you think of a function of an eating disorder is that it kind of consumes all your thoughts and all of, um, really everything, right? You're concerned about what you're eating, what you look like, how much exercise you get, maybe. I mean, I, I'm sure I don't have to explain it, but the eating disorder becomes like all-consuming. And so if you think about it, who wants to look at pain? Right. Who wants to sit there and say, this is the most painful thing that has ever happened to me, and now you want me to sit with you and talk about it and dissect it and try to understand it? Like, no, I don't want to do that. And because we're wired to kind of run away from pain, not towards pain, which is why sometimes the process of therapy is so hard, because here I am saying, all right guys, let's look at what really caused you pain, you know, and who wants to do that, including me in my own therapy? Like, I want to run away from pain, and that's when I notice all my defenses start coming up. Well, think about it. If you have this painful thing that happened to you, and one is not worse than the other, I think a lot of times people are like, well, at least this didn't happen to me. No, that's not it.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:13:17 - 00:14:03]: Whatever happened to you is significant and important, but you just don't want to talk about it, right? You don't want to deal with it. And so if you focus all your energies on an eating disorder, you don't have to focus on any of the underlying pain. So the eating disorder actually becomes a protective function that helps us. It helps us to be able to deal with whatever it was that happened. And if you think about it, hopefully it leads you to the help that then, you know, we can give the eating disorder another job. Because in parts work, what you learn is that all parts are there for a reason, right? And they're all part of who we are. You know, so maybe the eating disorder just needs another part, another work, another job. So here's a quick example.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:14:04 - 00:15:13]: One of my clients, she was very obsessive in her eating disorder, not OCD, just very, very obsessive. And she, throughout her recovery, once she got at a good place, she turned it to volleyball. And she became one of the best volleyball players in the region, so much so that she actually got a scholarship to an Ivy League school. And it was just a matter of, in a healthy way, that same quality that eating disorder embodied, she was able to turn towards something else. And it's really funny 'cause I always tell people who have eating disorders, if you just used a fraction of the energy that you use toward the disorder to something else, you would rule the world. And I think it's the truth. I never have forgotten one of the first Hungry for Hopes where Constance said like the enemy is after girls with eating disorders and boys with eating disorders because most of the time, and I too believe this, they are the most talented. So yeah, that's why I think that sometimes we're quick to say get rid of the eating disorder, get rid of the eating disorder, get rid of the eating disorder.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:15:13 - 00:15:26]: But true healing, I believe, comes in finding like why did this person develop this eating disorder? Why did I develop this eating disorder? What was I trying to cope with? Not what was I trying to get to, right?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:15:27 - 00:15:34]: That's powerful. I do not want the enemy to twist this. We're not promoting eating disorders. We're not encouraging you to have an eating disorder.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:15:35 - 00:16:05]: It's finding grace for a person who has been through an eating disorder, because I think in the past they've been condemned, like, this is your choice. This is what you wanted. This is how you did it. And so then the person feels a lot of guilt and shame. And this is the opposite of that. This is kind of saying, saying, okay, well, the eating disorder is here. How do— what did it do, right? Like, why was it formed? Like, I have yet to meet like a 2-year-old that's like, I can't wait till I'm older and I have an eating disorder. It's gonna be the best thing ever.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:16:06 - 00:16:23]: So the fact that it's there, it's just trying to understand like what was the pain that you were trying to run away from that may have contributed to the creation of this eating disorder. But I agree, Chrissy, 100%. In no way, shape, or form is this An endorsement of having an eating disorder.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:16:23 - 00:16:25]: Yeah, we would never do that.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:16:25 - 00:16:54]: So I think a lot of times we get scared when we talk about parts because people think of dissociative identity disorder. And while that's at the end of a continuum of parts, I have parts. I have a part of me that shows up as therapist. I have a part of me that shows up as aunt. I have a part of me that shows up as teacher. I have so many different parts of me. And yes, they are all part of one whole. So when we're talking here, I really think we're talking about a fragmented part, not a dissociated part.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:16:54 - 00:17:17]: It's very interesting because a dissociated part is when you really don't remember what one part did and the other. So more along the continuum of dissociative identity disorder. So just questioning, like, when it says that he walks with us and talks with us, do we allow him to walk with us in our pain?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:17:17 - 00:17:18]: Yes.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:17:18 - 00:18:03]: Or do we feel shameful and do we cover up our pain? Or, you know, who does the shame belong to? You know, does it belong to you or does it belong to somebody else? Um, so we may have all these parts around us, and, and sometimes people talk about inner child work, um, accessing your inner child. And, um, again, it's, it's a part of us, right? Like, how old is that part? Sometimes you're able to be like, oh, it's 6 or 7 or 8 years old. And the truth is, is that as older people, we can take those parts in and we can actually take them to Jesus, or we can really reparent them in a way that we wished we would have had.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:04 - 00:18:09]: Wow, that's good. And that's not an overnight thing, I'm sure, right?
Angelica Gonzalez [00:18:09 - 00:18:10]: No, not at all.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:13 - 00:18:13]: Not at all.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:18:13 - 00:18:43]: We have to first find that part, right, and, and be able to understand it so So imagine if the eating disorder and body image issues and anxiety and depression are covering that part, it takes a while to walk through those layers to get to that part of us or that root that was really hurt. So what can we do? Like, how can we build a bridge from the pain to who we are today? 'Cause one of the things that I love, love, love is that was then and this is now.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:18:44 - 00:18:44]: Yeah.
Building a Bridge: Healing the Past
Angelica Gonzalez [00:18:44 - 00:20:00]: That was then and this is today. And even saying it out loud allows you to make the delineation in time and space of something that happened in the past versus something that is happening today. So how do we build a bridge? And that's something that you can do through art, again, accessing both hemispheres of your mind, which we all know that I love creatively, but really kind of getting an internal representation of what this part that was hurt or this part that, you know, struggled and how it can bridge to today where we can hold on to it. We can help it maybe with tools that we have. And ultimately, what happens when we take that part to Jesus? What happens when we take that part to Father God? What happens when we take that part to the Holy Spirit? Like, can it start receiving everything that it needed? So yeah, I mean, that's, that's one of this— one of, one of the other tools that I wanted to give you guys is building the bridge and then taking this part to Jesus. You know, I think one of the hard things about trauma is that it lives in our bodies and in our minds. And the concept of building bridge is also building the bridge between our minds and our bodies. Um, because in our bodies we hold on to so much of what was done for us.Angelica Gonzalez [00:20:00 - 00:20:25]: Because like I always say, our body was there with us, right, in the beginning. Like, our body was there with us. Our body walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus. But it was also It's also there with us when we go through the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? Like all of it. It's always there. And I think there's an easier way to kind of intellectualize everything and to make it more about the head. And then we forget that our body was really there with us.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:20:26 - 00:20:36]: What are some examples of like where our body feels the trauma or the pain or the struggle that we're going through? Like, where does our body hold it?
Angelica Gonzalez [00:20:36 - 00:21:09]: Yeah, it depends, Chrissy. It depends because, you know, it depends on what was done to us and/or what we went through, right? Um, um, so when I lived in New York, I went through September 11th, and I completely thought that it had not affected me. I didn't know anybody in the towers directly. Thank God my friends had stayed home that day. Um, but walking home that day and seeing everything that I saw Now I know, of course it had an effect. But back then I was like, oh, I'm fine. I survived it. We all got through it.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:21:09 - 00:21:10]: It's fine.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:21:12 - 00:22:10]: And then 2 years later, when I actually decided to be a therapist and I came back to Miami, my brother was watching a documentary from inside the towers. And I'll never forget because I was cooking chicken in the oven and I went to pull out the chicken. I put it on top of the stove and I turned around and I looked at a scene scene that was happening in the documentary, and I just fell to my knees. Um, my body and my mind were not connected at that moment because I was like, what just happened? Um, now I understand. Now I understand that it was my body having a reaction to something that I had seen. And so that's why I say, you know, it was a part of me that still carried the physical memory of that day. Um, so that's, that's kind of what I say, that our bodies and our minds, like, when they're not connected— and it's survival, right? Like, we don't we don't connect it because we got to survive. Like, and if I felt everything in my body, I might feel like I might explode, you know? Um, but through therapy, the really cool thing is that you can, you know, you can.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:22:11 - 00:22:32]: And movement— that's why movement, not in a disordered way, is so important. Um, I love Pilates. I'm a Pilates proponent. I think it is like one of the best exercises. It makes you slow down. It makes you connect to your body. It allows you to like the creation that God has given you and how amazing it is. And it's not about like competition.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:22:32 - 00:22:49]: It's really just what do you do on the reformer by yourself and what do you— what goals do you wanna accomplish? And it's not a harsh exercise. I'm a big proponent because it does, it connects you to the beauty that God created outside and inside.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:22:50 - 00:22:57]: Building a bridge. And bringing the two, or all, not the two parts, but all the parts to Jesus.
Creative Healing: Bringing Parts to Jesus
Angelica Gonzalez [00:22:58 - 00:24:05]: So my favorite thing is creatively, right? So I would say grab a journal and start understanding what are the parts that seem to be away from Jesus? What are the parts maybe that are in isolation and by themselves because of whatever you have been through? And usually it's a part of us that we don't want to see. So there's a book that calls it the internal phobia of parts. It's like you're phobic of that part because you just don't like it. And you're like, I don't want to see that. You know, like, there are parts of me that I don't like particularly, but those are usually the ones that carry something that need to be given to God or carry some form of pain of us, which is why we don't want to see it. And the more love and compassion we have towards those hearts, the more love and compassion we have for them, the more we can really bring them and understand— again, going back to function— understand their function and what they've been doing inside of us, you know, all this time. And so I personally do a lot of collage work. Like, that's where I've done a lot of my own personal healing.Angelica Gonzalez [00:24:06 - 00:24:53]: So I would literally collage a part of me and Jesus and like what that bridge kind of looks like from one part to the other, or collage what you think of your mind and, like, what you think of your body and what a bridge to bridge them together looks like. And within that is work, Chrissy, you know, because it's not like you're like, oh, I built a bridge. Yay, I'm there. No. Like, sometimes what is along the bridge is kind of giving you a plan of, like, how do I get there, you know? And to me, everything opens up to heaven, you know? It starts with— the connection here of understanding myself and then being able to, like, give it all to God. But if I don't understand what's going on in my inner Eden, right, like we talk about, then I don't know what I can give to God as I walk and talk with him. Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:24:54 - 00:25:34]: And when I think of— so when you're talking about, you know, parts that we need to give to God, and I think back of, you know, what I was thinking, what, what parts would I, like, not like And I— and usually it goes way back to just ways I behaved and wish I wouldn't have said that or acted that way or done that or participated. And yeah, I don't really want to go there either. But it's good to think about that. Like, what is— I don't want to keep carrying that either. Like, because when I think about it, my body, I start to feel my body react in different ways. And I start to like, my chest kind of gets tight, my stomach kind of feels uncomfortable.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:25:35 - 00:25:35]: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:25:37 - 00:26:05]: I'd rather lay that at the feet of Jesus, like, get it up out of me, lay it down, and ask Him to help me through this or to take it away so I can move forward and not have to deal with it and not accept any condemnation because that's not from Him. We say that a lot, but on our podcast, I know other episodes we've made it clear, but like, I will not stop.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:26:06 - 00:26:06]: Yeah.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:26:07 - 00:26:34]: Reminding our listeners and myself that condemnation is not coming from Jesus. That is not happening. It's sweet, gentle, loving, fatherly conviction. And, and love and forgiveness and so much grace, so much grace. So when we hear a voice saying, like, there, there's a time when, you know, I feel broken. How do you respond to brokenness?
Brokenness, Truth, and Identity
Angelica Gonzalez [00:26:35 - 00:27:35]: So I really don't believe that we're all broken. Like, I don't think that it's just like you're broken and you need somebody to fix you. And that's kind of like what I think. So when I hear I'm broken, my first question is usually, says who? Like, who is saying that, right? Because God saw all that he made and he said it was good. So if it's good, is it broken? I don't know. You know, we might have broken parts inside of us or parts that feel broken, but you as a person, as a whole, is not broken. Again, it's this idea of we're not all good and we're not all bad, but what God created was good. But it brings me back to who labeled you, right? Like, who told you that you were broken? Where did you pick up that message? Was that God or was that somebody that was placed in your environment or who? Or was it your own voice that is like, oh, you must be broken and you bought into that.Angelica Gonzalez [00:27:35 - 00:27:50]: But it goes back to the lies of the enemy. So another tool that I like to say is, you know, and I do it with play therapy. So it's kind of like pick a miniature that represents you, pick a miniature that represents God, and pick a miniature that represents the enemy.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:27:51 - 00:27:51]: Wow.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:27:51 - 00:28:47]: Well, whose voice are you listening to? And it's really, I love miniature work because when you see a huge miniature for the enemy and a really small miniature for God, like you kind of see, wow, like this is how I think. And drawing, creative therapies, play therapy, it all uses your unconscious mind. So it's really cool to see what people pick. And if you wanna do this for yourself, you can pick stickers or you could go online and Pick something that represents God for you, or you could go into nature. I mean, there's so many different ways of doing it, but looking at it and really looking at you know was it God who said it or was the enemy who said it? And why is the enemy saying this to me? What's the purpose in believing this lie, right? And what is it connected to? Because if I continue to believe these lies again, going back to a protective function, sometimes the lies are.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:28:47 - 00:28:47]: protective.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:28:48 - 00:29:35]: And I'm not saying that Satan is protecting you at all. Again, going back to please don't think that. But, you know, I've heard so many times, if I tell myself all of these lies about myself, well then it doesn't matter what anybody says about me because I've already told myself the worst. Um, and that I've heard a lot, um, throughout the years of being a therapist. I've heard that one a lot. So, um, making sure that we can move all of that out so that we can really see the truth. We just got back from a conference and one of the girls that works with me said that her biggest takeaway of the conference was that triggers come from trauma, not truth. And it's so simple but so true.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:29:35 - 00:29:50]: You know, when you're triggered or you believe something about yourself or you believe that's not right, it's really coming from something that happened to you. It's not coming from you today or from truth, which is hopefully who you today are.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:29:51 - 00:30:00]: That's powerful. I love that. We— that— oh, that's good. I'm gonna be writing that one down and sticking it on my wall for a reminder.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:30:01 - 00:30:27]: It's so good. That one was really, really good. And I agree, like, the truth is who God says we are. The truth is who God, you know, created us to be, not, you know, not from whatever experiences we had that in turn caused all of these. I love that it's called Disorder because God is so orderly in creation. Like, he created one thing one day, one thing the next day, you know? Like, he was so orderly.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:30:27 - 00:30:27]: Yeah.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:30:27 - 00:30:51]: Going back to my pencil case, like, I love the order, but the order Like, it's amazing, right? And so what is the opposite of truth? What is the opposite of what God wants for us? It's disorder, it's disarray, like, it's confusion. And so whenever there's confusion and whenever there's just a lot of stuff going on, that's not from God, 'cause God's a God of order.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:30:51 - 00:31:23]: I say amen and thank you, Lord, for being orderly. And you're right, the name disordered eating, eating disorder. That should tell us— I mean, we know because a lot of us have been through it or we live it, and we know it's disorderly and we don't like it. Yet there's this element of control and that we have plans and control and organized, you know, exercise regimens or food plans.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:31:23 - 00:31:24]: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:31:24 - 00:32:07]: yet what it does to us every day is super dysfunctional and disordered, and we don't like it. Like, sometimes we think we like it, but that when it comes down to it, it, it doesn't produce good results. And then we still feel like we're, we're trapped by it. When you talk about, um, broken— like, that no one's broken— is that— do you feel like there's— is there a difference between broken beyond repair? And, Lord, I come to you right now, and I just feel broken inside. Will you mend me? Like, are there 2 different ways of— or do you feel like no one can be broken in general?
Angelica Gonzalez [00:32:08 - 00:32:22]: I mean, maybe broken is a trigger word for me because I hear it so much. I'm broken. I'm broken. I'm broken. I'm broken. I'm like— and I'm sitting in front of people saying, you are so beautiful. Like, you are God's creation. Like, you're amazing.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:32:22 - 00:33:08]: Why would you ever think that you're broken? And so I love your question, Chrissy, because yeah, I think it's the broken beyond repair that I get a lot. You know, like, I'm broken beyond repair. You, you want me to be fixed. And I'm always like, I don't want you to be fixed. Like, who am I? You know, like— But I know that God created us to be whole, and God created us to live a full life. Um, and so I think that's why, like, yeah, I think there is a difference. Like, of course, like, I feel broken versus I am broken, I think is a very different delineation, right? Like, I feel broken is one thing, but I am broken and nobody can ever help me, like, those are— that's— that for me is my trigger. Like, what are you talking about?
Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:08 - 00:33:38]: Let's get in there, let's help you. And there is a difference. We're approaching You know, I might be approaching the throne and just, Lord, I just feel broken. Help me. Put me back together again. That's the— I know that I'm in this grief, or I'm struggling with this. I experienced— to me, I feel like I experienced loads of brokenness during my infertility struggles, and losing one baby after another. I feel like my body's broken.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:38 - 00:33:41]: I feel like I am broken. I know you have something for me.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:33:41 - 00:33:41]: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:33:42 - 00:34:12]: help me, versus I don't know if I ever went to a point of, I am broken beyond repair, there is no hope. And so I can feel one is Holy Spirit-led, and the other is the enemy is driving it and saying those lies of you. Maybe I at that point was holding on to truth and There are other points in my life I was listening to lies up one side and down the other.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:34:13 - 00:35:06]: And it's, and it's a distortion of identity, because if you really know who you are and you know who God says you are, that's different, right? Because I, I don't, I don't see Father God saying, you're broken, that's who you are, that is your identity, right? But if I walk through the world and I'm like, I am a broken human being, like That's not God's best for you. Absolutely not. And that's not the heart of God either. And that's not how he made you. But feeling broken, I mean, I'm sure sometimes you really feel deep in your heart like there's something there, you know. And yeah, being able to give it to God is amazing, you know, being able to understand, to ask them to partner with you. And I say them because whether it's Father God, Holy Spirit, or Jesus to partner with you and to show you like, in what areas am I broken? What's going on? Like, why do feel this way. I know that's not who you created me to be.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:35:07 - 00:35:13]: And that's, that's really, I think, where I come from, Chrissy. Like, that's my trigger. My trigger's like, you're not broken, I promise.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:35:13 - 00:35:35]: You want, you want us to know the truth about who God says we are. Back to the garden of when he created us. He didn't just say it was good. It was we, his, his creation of human life, it, it is very good. It was then and it still is now.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:35:35 - 00:35:35]: Mm-hmm.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:35:35 - 00:35:57]: Even in our bodies that have a start date and an end date on this earth, um, it's still very good. And even when we feel that the world around us is telling— it's not telling us it's not good, he says it's very good. So Angelica, what would you like to, um, to leave our listeners with today?
Final Encouragements: A Call Back to the Garden
Angelica Gonzalez [00:35:58 - 00:36:50]: I think, and this is what I was saying when we were talking, that there's a call back to the garden. Like, I think he wants us to go back to the moment where we could walk with him, we could talk with him, we can worship with him, we can, we can really do everything. Like, just do daily life. I mean, wash your dishes, take care of your kids, uh, Work with that, whatever it is. Mow your lawn. Like, whatever it is, do it with Jesus, you know? Like, do it with Father God. Do it with Holy Spirit. Like, what does that look like? What does it look like to know that you're not alone? What does it look like to be able to know that everything that he created was good? And that that doesn't only include, like, ourselves and our body or certain foods, right? Like, it includes all foods, you know? Like, yeah, salads are very good, you know?Chrissy Kirkman [00:36:50 - 00:36:50]: Yeah.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:36:51 - 00:37:34]: So is the cupcake. Like, you know, we're all good. Like, it's good. And to be able to realize that even in the pain, even in the struggle, he has always been there with her, with us. Even if we have these parts of us that we don't quite understand, that it's okay because he will, he will reveal what he plans to heal, which is one of my other favorite sayings that I say a lot. And that revelation comes through time. It's not like a one and done. Um, so I think we just need to walk back into the garden with him and remember that when we step out of it, to walk back in and step out of it and walk back in and always go back remembering that whatever happens in the past is in the past and we can look at it and we can heal it.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:37:34 - 00:37:36]: And that's not happening today.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:37:37 - 00:38:11]: And I hear so much grace in your voice when you're, when you're saying these things. There's, there's grace We need to extend ourselves grace while we're doing these things. And to know, like, I— there's so many days where I'll just be like, I just want to— I want to be over this. I want to be— I want to be fixed and move on and just move forward. But like, there are sometimes where in our lives we're not ready to receive something, or it can't really soak in today like it will 3 months and 5 days from now. Because we've gone through these other things.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:38:13 - 00:39:05]: I love what the Bible says because over and over and over again, you read Jesus moved with compassion. And so if he moved with compassion, and, you know, I think of the word compassion and like if I were to translate it in my head, like com meaning plus and then passion being like love, with love, like how can— and that's not a Hebrew translation or anything like that, I promise. That's not me. It's just the way my brain works. But, um, I just think about it, like, what happens if we move with compassion like Jesus did, right? Like, what if I— everything that— in everything that I do, I move with compassion, not only for other people, but the part that people miss is for ourselves too, with grace and compassion. Because if we don't have that, I think we're missing part of the heart of Jesus. You know, that he moved with compassion.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:39:05 - 00:39:37]: That's so good. Angelica, this was great. This was deep. I know that there are probably some listeners like, okay, what do I do next? What is my next step? I can't do all of this by myself. Because it really— it takes someone who understands to help guide us through. And there's not— like, we are big components for getting the help you need. I am here today because I got so much different help. And I chose Christ-centered help because that was important to me.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:39:37 - 00:39:52]: That's what I wanted to know. Jesus, where do you fit in the middle of this eating struggle? Where do you fit in the middle of the trauma that I've been through and want to overcome? So what would you suggest that someone could do? Where should they start?
Where to Start: Next Steps for Healing
Angelica Gonzalez [00:39:52 - 00:40:25]: So I believe there's a variety of different things that we can do. So number one is go the traditional route and get a Christian counselor. And if one is not available in your community, I have gone the route of a non-Christian counselor when I started therapy, and she helped me a lot until a point where, you know, I really needed somebody who was more Christian. And now I have a Christian therapist. So you can do that. And that is somebody who's going to help you walk through it. You can also— I loved, Chrissy, that you talked about the Bible study that you all did. That's more of the book—Chrissy Kirkman [00:40:26 - 00:40:29]: Boundless by Tasha Layton.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:40:29 - 00:41:12]: Boundless, right. By Tasha Layton. So like, if you get in a group of women that you trust and that you love and that know, that can walk with you, um, I think that's a great format too, to be able to walk with each other and learn together. Um, and, or small groups that are geared towards healing within your church. I mean, there's those, which I think is amazing. Um, and if you really don't feel like you can open up with somebody else or with people, I think that's why I was so intent on giving tools. So we gave you 3 different tools on this podcast. Grab a journal, grab a latte, and start asking Holy Spirit to reveal for you.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:41:12 - 00:41:12]: Same.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:41:12 - 00:41:54]: Sorry, I'm a coffee fanatic, so I'm sorry for those who are not. Um, or a tea, you know. Um, and sit down and start like kind of digging into these things. I know that like the word says, the Spirit of God was hovering The Spirit of God is going to be hovering over you. And I don't want to forget that Finding Balance has some amazing groups also that you could join and just start unpacking. One of the biggest things I want to make sure that I say is it's a journey. It's not a destination. I've been in therapy and continue to be in therapy because I want to make sure that my mind is very healthy for people that I treat.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:41:54 - 00:42:13]: And God just continues to peel layer after layer after layer. And don't get the idea that you have to be in therapy forever. For me, it's more of an occupational thing that I would never want to put anything on anybody that's mine. So I continue to just get what I call mental health checkups. So good.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:42:13 - 00:42:54]: Well, Angelica, I'm going to be sure to link edentherapycow.com Because I know you have some cool resources like placemats and coping cards and grounding skills and affirmations and hope cards, like all these cool things to download that I think would be really beneficial. And if anyone might want to work with you or someone on your team, they can connect with you in that way. And I'll also link your cedcn.org profile so they can connect as well, and Instagram and all the things. Well, thank you so much, Angelica. It's been a pleasure. Before we end, can you describe to us the last time you experienced true freedom?
Experiencing True Freedom
Angelica Gonzalez [00:42:56 - 00:43:53]: So I thought about it, and my last time that I've felt the true freedom would be, um, we went to Upper Room as a staff because we had been in Dallas for a conference, and they allowed us to worship in the front. And I find so much freedom in worship. I am one of those crazy ones that will be dancing and singing and moving her hands and being grateful to God for the body that I have, being grateful for everything that has led up to that moment. And I find so much freedom in worship. And if there is something that I will pray for everybody who listens is that you experience that freedom of just not caring because you're there for God. The Bible says that David danced unabashedly in front of the Lord. So every time I feel like I'm being a little too extra, I always remember that. And I'm like, but I'm free!Chrissy Kirkman [00:43:55 - 00:44:12]: That is awesome. I cannot wait. We have to worship together one day because we'll just be synchronized worshiping or something. I love it. Yes, I love to. I mean, because it's literally, it's you and God. That's what it— that's what it is. That's what it should be.
Chrissy Kirkman [00:44:13 - 00:44:15]: Um, thank you, Angelica. So great.
Angelica Gonzalez [00:44:16 - 00:44:24]: No, thank you guys. Um, thank you, Chrissy. Thank you, the Finding Balance team. I love y'all and I'm here for it. Awesome.
